Chris Hedges: Mumia Abu-Jamal joins us today by phone from the SCI Mahanoy State Prison in Frackville, Pennsylvania. He has published seven books in prison, including his searing and best-selling Live from Death Row, which Dick Gregory says, “Single-handedly brought dignity to the whole death row.” His voice is a continuum of the Black prophetic fire of David Walker, Nat Turner, Frederick Douglass, W.E.B. DuBois, Paul Robeson and Malcolm X. So Mumia, I want to ask you about this neo-slave narrative that you write about on Live from Death Row, and how Black radicals like you who counter that narrative; why it’s so incendiary to the state.
Mumia Abu-Jamal: What’s necessary for the state is the illusion of normality, regularity. So, you know, think about this: in Rome, what the Emperors needed was bread and circuses. In America, what we need is Housewives of Atlanta. We need sports. And we need, you know, these moral stories of good cops and evil people. And because you have that, because you really have, what you know perfectly, having read your books, you know that, you know, there is no critical thinking in the United States in this period — you have emotion, right? And if I can get you to look at someone who’s demonized, then I can do anything. I can do anything. And that’s how the state works, by demonizing people and then putting them in places where they’re virtually invisible.
Chris Hedges: You write in the book about how that this kind of neo-slave narrative, it sells because it gives the false illusion that there’s somehow escape from the system: that no one is absolutely guilty, nor are the oppressed, the slave, the prisoner, absolutely guiltless.
Mumia Abu-Jamal: Right, exactly. And here’s the reality. America has never come to grips with what a lot of scholars and thinkers call its “original sin,” and that’s because it never stopped happening. Think about this: this country that, you know, brags about being founded on freedom, was founded on slavery, was founded on holocaust, was founded on genocide; and after slavery ended, after the Constitution was rewritten and amended, and we had the Reconstruction amendments, the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments, well what did the South do? They ignored it for a century. You know, there were a few bright years of reconstruction, and then there was retention where that was destroyed. And it isn’t until the 60s that you see this deep, rich emergence of people fighting for rights that were enshrined in the Constitution a century before.
That’s because every state in the South, and many states in the North, were allowed to make exceptions to the Constitution. Those exceptions: when it came to Black people, and we’ve learned that that’s not just the Southern reality. You can’t talk about AEDPA, the so-called Anti-Terrorism Death Penalty Act, unless you have the same mindset that makes the Constitution an exceptional document [facility announcement] only able to be used by the wealthy and ignored by the rest. That’s what we have, and we have the same thing with a different name.
Chris Hedges: In 1968, I think it was, when George Wallace was running for president, he held a rally in Philadelphia, and you were 14 at the time. You attended that rally with three of your friends, and it was right out of a, I mean, it was out of a Trump rally. Can you explain what took place?
Mumia Abu-Jamal: We had the illusion of freedom. So, this was our city. We were born and raised there. We went down to what’s called the Spectrum, and, you know, like, it sounds silly now, but you know, imagine five or six, you know, young teenage boys shouting “Black Power!” in the middle of a Wallace for President.
Chris Hedges: Okay, I’m not going to let you stop there, because you were also shouting, “Ungawa.” [laughing]
Mumia Abu-Jamal: “Ungawa. Black Power.” It sounded rhythmic. It sounded sexy.
Chris Hedges: [laughing] You said “We didn’t know what it meant, but it had a hell of a ring to it.”
Mumia Abu-Jamal: It sounded good. I mean, I still don’t know what it means, but you know, it sounded good.
Chris Hedges: Okay.
Mumia Abu-Jamal: Well, people began spitting at us. People began ripping flags from their sticks and throwing sticks at us and just hollering at us and shouting at us. Well, some police came and other security, and they escorted us out. And we thought, hey, well, you know, we had a little fun and our voices were heard. And we went to the bus stop. And two or three of us were on the bus. A young guy named Alvin and a guy named Eddie. And I was like, I’m usually the slowest, so I was behind them. A guy walked up and hit me with a blackjack and knocked me down and pulled Eddie and pulled Alvin off the buses, and we were getting our asses kicked.
It never dawned on us that these were cops, because you can’t just walk up and beat people up. Well, I remember seeing a cop’s leg walk by, and I said, “Help! Help! Police!” and the guy looked at me, looked down at me, and he walked over and he kicked me right in the face. Then it dawned on me that all of these guys were cops. And that was a little taste of Rizzo, a little taste of Philadelphia, and an introduction to Trump. We see it today. I mean, I can hear Trump saying, you know, “Yeah, beat the hell out of them… in the old days,” well, I lived in those days. They weren’t good days. They were ugly days and they’re ugly days today. Listen, I’m on another brother’s time. Chris, I gotta go. I love you all.
Chris Hedges: Okay, Mumia.
Mumia Abu-Jamal: It’s really great to hear your voice. All right. On the move y’all.
Chris Hedges: You’re an inspiration to us all.
Mumia Abu-Jamal: As are you, sir.
